Is skill determined by the the deck in which you use or your ability to use cards

Both, but not in the context of what you're thinking.

It's the cards you use in one aspect because if you're running an autopilot deck, you're not displaying YOUR skill, you're displaying the skill of the person you got the deck from.

However, it is also how you use the cards.
If you try to negate a card with MST, you're not going to get much in terms of respect.

Its kinda both. If you got a 60 card deck how are you gonna draw the "good" hands?

Misplaying your cards all the time is terrible too. If you don't play your cards right how do you expect to win

I hear what both of you are saying but when i was in 8th grade there was no deck limit

And my friend sebastian had been using heroes....this kid was thee best in our school and we had alot of good ppl...he was using a 70 card deck

I dunno bad shuffling? More cards = less consistency

You can't use 70.

Tempest wrote:You can't use 70.

as i said before there wasnt a deck limit 6 to 7 years ago

Noobs, it depends on where you play. There is no actual limit to how many cards you use in your main deck. Although on DN the max is 60. I've seen people use 70+ cards at my locals.

but again this was when i was in middle school so its changed since then

Cyrus wrote:Noobs, it depends on where you play. There is no actual limit to how many cards you use in your main deck. Although on DN the max is 60. I've seen people use 70+ cards at my locals.

I thought Konami instituted a rule about having a maximum in terms of deck size?

Cyrus wrote:Noobs, it depends on where you play. There is no actual limit to how many cards you use in your main deck. Although on DN the max is 60. I've seen people use 70+ cards at my locals.

False.

http://www.yugioh-card.com/uk/rulebook/V7_English_Rlbk_lores.pdf

Official Rulebook, page 6.

Eheroduelist wrote:It's the cards you use in one aspect because if you're running an autopilot deck, you're not displaying YOUR skill, you're displaying the skill of the person you got the deck from.

Do I need to go rant mode on you again? lol. I'll start off lightly...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJc2H5m8Mow&feature=g-all-u

Skill in Yugioh is both. There isn't only one aspect to the game that is skill, they are three different kinds of skills.

Deckbuilding is a skill in its own and is usually what players discover first. Some take more time than others, but usually after playing for a few months daily and seriously, they catch on to what type of cards are good and how to pick out cards that mesh well.

Timing is another skill that takes a bit longer to develop. Once you begin to learn more type of decks, you start to understand the ins and outs of those decks. Eventually, you'll be able to see the big plays your opponent is going for simply based off of one card your opponent plays. You'll know the right time to torrential, veiler, or drop a maxx "c" for the best results. Another aspect of timing is knowing when its best to conserve and wait, set up for better plays, or when its clear to extend for game.

The third skill can be more defined as "extensive knowledge." I used to play X-sabers for the longest time in the six samurai format, and I loved the heck out of them. I thought I knew the deck inside and out and won all the time with it. Usually pulled off most of the combos I'd hope for. it's been about 2 years since then, never seen X-Sabers again until a few weeks ago someone played me with them against my Wind-Ups. I thought for sure I'd have this game cuz I knew what to expect, but holy crap was I wrong. He was playing practically the same deck I had, but he played it much much differently. There were so many times that I thought I had him to where he couldn't do anything, even knowing what cards he could activate or combos I would normally do in that situation. He activated the cards I thought he would, but used them for different things. I thought, eh, don't matter, even if he does extend, I have dark hole and an active pot of avarice in hand. He ends up extending enough to get out 3 darksouls, syncing off 2 and fullhelm for Gottoms, and tributing his last 2 x-sabers on the field to discard my only backups... I don't even remember how he did it, but the combo took him like 10 minutes.

What I'm tryin to say I guess is that there are SOOOO many options in soooo many different situations. Being able to see all of your possible options and work them out to an end result before even playing a card is a skill all in its own. He knew exactly what he was doing the entire time cuz before he pulled it off it took him a good amount of time to plan it out. He made his plays work in every situation I put him in even though none of them were regularly seen plays in X-Sabers. Being able to look past the "auto-pilot" plays that you learned through experience and coming up with plays that actually work in said situation on your own is something that takes a HECK of a lot of time and skill in Yugioh.

End wall o' text.

Damn you write a lot. Must say I agree with all of that

Niko327 wrote:

Eheroduelist wrote:It's the cards you use in one aspect because if you're running an autopilot deck, you're not displaying YOUR skill, you're displaying the skill of the person you got the deck from.

Do I need to go rant mode on you again? lol. I'll start off lightly...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJc2H5m8Mow&feature=g-all-u

Skill in Yugioh is both. There isn't only one aspect to the game that is skill, they are three different kinds of skills.

Deckbuilding is a skill in its own and is usually what players discover first. Some take more time than others, but usually after playing for a few months daily and seriously, they catch on to what type of cards are good and how to pick out cards that mesh well.

Timing is another skill that takes a bit longer to develop. Once you begin to learn more type of decks, you start to understand the ins and outs of those decks. Eventually, you'll be able to see the big plays your opponent is going for simply based off of one card your opponent plays. You'll know the right time to torrential, veiler, or drop a maxx "c" for the best results. Another aspect of timing is knowing when its best to conserve and wait, set up for better plays, or when its clear to extend for game.

The third skill can be more defined as "extensive knowledge." I used to play X-sabers for the longest time in the six samurai format, and I loved the heck out of them. I thought I knew the deck inside and out and won all the time with it. Usually pulled off most of the combos I'd hope for. it's been about 2 years since then, never seen X-Sabers again until a few weeks ago someone played me with them against my Wind-Ups. I thought for sure I'd have this game cuz I knew what to expect, but holy crap was I wrong. He was playing practically the same deck I had, but he played it much much differently. There were so many times that I thought I had him to where he couldn't do anything, even knowing what cards he could activate or combos I would normally do in that situation. He activated the cards I thought he would, but used them for different things. I thought, eh, don't matter, even if he does extend, I have dark hole and an active pot of avarice in hand. He ends up extending enough to get out 3 darksouls, syncing off 2 and fullhelm for Gottoms, and tributing his last 2 x-sabers on the field to discard my only backups... I don't even remember how he did it, but the combo took him like 10 minutes.

What I'm tryin to say I guess is that there are SOOOO many options in soooo many different situations. Being able to see all of your possible options and work them out to an end result before even playing a card is a skill all in its own. He knew exactly what he was doing the entire time cuz before he pulled it off it took him a good amount of time to plan it out. He made his plays work in every situation I put him in even though none of them were regularly seen plays in X-Sabers. Being able to look past the "auto-pilot" plays that you learned through experience and coming up with plays that actually work in said situation on your own is something that takes a HECK of a lot of time and skill in Yugioh.

End wall o' text.

I agree with you in some aspects. HOWEVER, the auto-pilot techniques are used more often than the creative, innovative, and unpredictable moves; whether or not they're the best moves available.
Example, I just dueled someone who used Junk Synchron to pull a level 2 monster from grave to summon Catastor.
An average move, not uncommon, a typical Synchro Summon.
SO, the noob goes out and attacks my Colossal Fighter (DARK attribute mind you) and then ragequits when YGOPro kills off their monster. I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that all decks of a certain type are autopilot. I'm saying that autopilot moves are common, and are NOT a demonstration of any form of skill other than the person who made the deck/combo, and some people don't tend to think when they make the autopilot play regardless of the skill level of the person who invented the play.

Reason I say that creative moves are uncommon? Tell me, how often do you bump into a meta deck/combo you haven't seen 100+ times?

I agree with the video in some aspects as well, we all make "auto-pilot" plays. Thing is, we tend to use these in a manner that is demonstrative to our skills. Rather than just perform an auto-pilot move, start moving cards around, and then ask if we've won.

Well yah, you see that all the time. It doesn't take a 5-year yugioh veteran to play a Din-Rabbit deck. Get some 7-year old off the street who knows the rules to the modern Yugioh game and he could easily get laggia out in a turn. Does it make it an auto-pilot play? No, it's just a good one that was easy to do. Some decks are easier to play than others cuz Konami has come up with some pretty OP cards, but it doesn't mean they're "auto-pilot."

I just think you're getting your definitions mixed up. "auto-pilot" means self-operated, or self-running. Something that is "easy" means it takes little to no skill or effort. If decks were auto-pilot, we wouldn't even be touching the cards once we told the deck to start the game.

If people wouldn't have to touch the cards, I'm just as sure they would. Next best thing is auto-pilot based decks.

Anything for free wins, that's the mindset of some people out there.

Thats not the mindset, that's the truth lol. Why would you go to YCS with a deck that takes a billion turns to set up and get one big boss monster out with nothing to back it up when you could take a deck that has endless amount of plays because each card is a play in it's own? Makes no sense if you want to win lol.

Niko327 wrote:Thats not the mindset, that's the truth lol. Why would you go to YCS with a deck that takes a billion turns to set up and get one big boss monster out with nothing to back it up when you could take a deck that has endless amount of plays because each card is a play in it's own? Makes no sense if you want to win lol.

because theres more to this game then just winning.

Niko327 wrote:Thats not the mindset, that's the truth lol. Why would you go to YCS with a deck that takes a billion turns to set up and get one big boss monster out with nothing to back it up when you could take a deck that has endless amount of plays because each card is a play in it's own? Makes no sense if you want to win lol.

Whut.

I said some, and I don't see anyone who doesn't play autopilot decks running something they don't like.

As Gary said, theres more to this game than just winning.

and honestly on the topic of auto pilot and the support for mindless deck and combo play. i will always be against it, i do not support the competitive yugioh community and its mindset on how the game should be played. and honestly ive never seen anyone so ready to back the people who are basically at fault for how downhill this game has gone over the years AKA, the competitive playerbase until i ran into u niko. and IMO, if u wanna win at something that has meaning, go win some money at a casino or win the lottery or something. and leave the card games for people who understand what they are ment for. FUN!

The definition of skill is not to suck.

GaryRulez wrote:

Niko327 wrote:Thats not the mindset, that's the truth lol. Why would you go to YCS with a deck that takes a billion turns to set up and get one big boss monster out with nothing to back it up when you could take a deck that has endless amount of plays because each card is a play in it's own? Makes no sense if you want to win lol.

because theres more to this game then just winning.

Then tell me, what is the point going to a YCS that could be a plane trip away for some people to enter and spend money just to lose?

You can't blame the playerbase for how the competitive yugioh scene is. Konami DOES AND ALWAYS controls the way the game is played. They make the cards and archetypes, they make the rules, and they create the next banlist. The march format should have made this completely obvious, for they EASILY pushed out Synchros completely from the metagame and Xyzs became dominant, just off of one simple banlist and creating a few new cards that Konami needed to sell to make profit. If they wanted to bring back Agents, Heroes, or Goat Control even to tier 1, they would. But they don't because they want to make new cards with new, speedy effects and they want us to buy them. If anyone can't/isn't going to play with them, why would anyone buy them?

lastly, once again, I don't support any certain crowd, I'm just telling you the reality of this and any type of game. If you're playing with friends or at locals or online for the fun of it, by all means, play tier 2 or worse decks for the fun of it. It is just a game at that point. But if you're going for Nationals, Worlds, YCS, Regionasl, big name tournamnets that give cash prizes (Konami sets the prizes just so you know), why wouldn't you play to win? Its the same with ANY game I'm afraid, Gary. If you play poker or blackjack with your family during the holidays, who cares who wins, it's just something to do and socialize. But there are competitive levels of Poker, championship levels you can watch nationally on TV where people pull tons of stunts to win. It doesn't matter what the game is, it can be competitive and I'm sure someone out there has made it that way. I don't play to win, that's why I don't go to those big name tournaments. I play online where I can make over 100 decks that can win at any given point. If you're playing for fun anyway, why get mad over top tier decks and people who play them? Have fun with it and let it be done with, especially if you didnt lose anything out of it.

Ok ladies, enough of this. Skill is a player's ability to make and/or play a deck. Simple as that. I honestly don't see what's so confusing.

Niko327 wrote:

GaryRulez wrote:

Niko327 wrote:Thats not the mindset, that's the truth lol. Why would you go to YCS with a deck that takes a billion turns to set up and get one big boss monster out with nothing to back it up when you could take a deck that has endless amount of plays because each card is a play in it's own? Makes no sense if you want to win lol.

because theres more to this game then just winning.

Then tell me, what is the point going to a YCS that could be a plane trip away for some people to enter and spend money just to lose?

You can't blame the playerbase for how the competitive yugioh scene is. Konami DOES AND ALWAYS controls the way the game is played. They make the cards and archetypes, they make the rules, and they create the next banlist. The march format should have made this completely obvious, for they EASILY pushed out Synchros completely from the metagame and Xyzs became dominant, just off of one simple banlist and creating a few new cards that Konami needed to sell to make profit. If they wanted to bring back Agents, Heroes, or Goat Control even to tier 1, they would. But they don't because they want to make new cards with new, speedy effects and they want us to buy them. If anyone can't/isn't going to play with them, why would anyone buy them?

lastly, once again, I don't support any certain crowd, I'm just telling you the reality of this and any type of game. If you're playing with friends or at locals or online for the fun of it, by all means, play tier 2 or worse decks for the fun of it. It is just a game at that point. But if you're going for Nationals, Worlds, YCS, Regionasl, big name tournamnets that give cash prizes (Konami sets the prizes just so you know), why wouldn't you play to win? Its the same with ANY game I'm afraid, Gary. If you play poker or blackjack with your family during the holidays, who cares who wins, it's just something to do and socialize. But there are competitive levels of Poker, championship levels you can watch nationally on TV where people pull tons of stunts to win. It doesn't matter what the game is, it can be competitive and I'm sure someone out there has made it that way. I don't play to win, that's why I don't go to those big name tournaments. I play online where I can make over 100 decks that can win at any given point. If you're playing for fun anyway, why get mad over top tier decks and people who play them? Have fun with it and let it be done with, especially if you didnt lose anything out of it.

but u clearly just did.

Enough of this. Locked.